tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2290828421410624791.post4395607391641342470..comments2024-03-14T10:32:29.233-05:00Comments on Blood of Prokopius: Holmes & Cook: Level TitlesFrDavehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00459281821319914530noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2290828421410624791.post-59641241765897895342011-10-02T15:37:35.472-05:002011-10-02T15:37:35.472-05:00@Flambeaux
Thanks for the clarification! I am glad...@Flambeaux<br />Thanks for the clarification! I am glad you find this line of thinking inspiring.FrDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00459281821319914530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2290828421410624791.post-26105334802108990542011-10-02T05:48:54.772-05:002011-10-02T05:48:54.772-05:00If I may, I'd like to offer a clarification fo...If I may, I'd like to offer a clarification for Alexander regarding the distinction between the Minor Order of Exorcist and the appointed role of Exorcist in a Latin Rite Diocese.<br /><br />The two are not to be confused, despite the apparent similarity of title. <br /><br />The Minor Order, to which Fr. Dave is referring, was traditionally in the West one of the steps towards ordination. The man possessing the Order of Exorcist was empowered by the Church to bless water, the formula for which requires an exorcism of the water before invoking the blessing of the Almighty.<br /><br />The Diocesan position of Exorcist is an office to which a priest or bishop (and only a priest or bishop) is appointed by the Ordinary of the Diocese (usually himself a bishop). That man, although some diocese have several, is appointed by the bishop and invested with a full measure of that Ordinary's authority in that ecclesiastical territory with regard to the expulsion of diabolical entities. The Exorcist in a diocese is thus more like a legate: a man dispatched by the legitimate authority and vested with the necessary authority to do his superior's will.<br /><br />Alas, in the Latin Rite West the Minor Orders have fallen into desuetude since 1969.<br /><br />I hope that clears things up.<br /><br />I've often thought of using the Minor Orders as level titles but I like this idea better since it reconciles the very active life of adventurers with the steps of the clergy. One may be a cleric without ever becoming a priest and, for the more active clergy, it might be better if they never receive priestly ordination or episcopal consecration.<br /><br />I'll have to chew on this further...but it's headed in a direction I really like.<br /><br />Thanks.Flambeauxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00133131881423202010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2290828421410624791.post-29563245357321489302011-09-30T16:37:41.344-05:002011-09-30T16:37:41.344-05:00@Russ/FrDave: My understanding is that within the...@Russ/FrDave: My understanding is that within the Anglican communion, at least formerly, it was common for a priest to be reassigned to a different parish under the same bishop every few years. From what I understand, this was intended to prevent both the priest and the parish from becoming complacent. Whether it did/does or not, is another matter.<br /><br />@Brenden: I think a good compromise to the "no sword before level 4" would be to limit it to within civil boundaries. My players wouldn't likely go for a strict rule against it at all times, but would probably be willing to give up their weapons within the town or city limits. Then reaching level 4 and being able to carry a sword openly in town becomes a mark of privilege, possibly even marking the character as some form of law enforcement or military.Svafahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12237691554328991393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2290828421410624791.post-65891543975661355512011-09-30T16:12:46.954-05:002011-09-30T16:12:46.954-05:00Love the level titles. Excellent!Love the level titles. Excellent!John Matthew Staterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02310914386482078369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2290828421410624791.post-22179399253682831812011-09-30T15:53:45.016-05:002011-09-30T15:53:45.016-05:00@Alexander
Isn't the requirement higher for an...@Alexander<br /><i>Isn't the requirement higher for an official exorcist position?</i><br />Not to my understanding (which is that it is a minor order); however, please note that this is for the purpose of an FRPG and that my knowledge of <i>current</i> Roman Catholic practices (as opposed to the early Church) is sketchy, at best.FrDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00459281821319914530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2290828421410624791.post-88918490994561332982011-09-30T09:48:46.005-05:002011-09-30T09:48:46.005-05:00Exorcist at 4th level? Isn't the requirement h...Exorcist at 4th level? Isn't the requirement higher for an official exorcist position?Alex Osiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14851139031311819958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2290828421410624791.post-72995747884083257312011-09-30T04:24:32.807-05:002011-09-30T04:24:32.807-05:00now you've got me thinking about Jesuits and m...now you've got me thinking about Jesuits and mendicant orders, whiile previously I thought of fighter ranks being like martial arts belts. A guild can be big or small, public or secret, of course, but what you have here is social significance, opportunities, responsibilities. Which is all good, but easiest to sell to players when there's a clear reference to some existing type so they can grok the pros and cons, play the character rather than chafe under restrictions. I've dm'd c&s for d&d players and tried to explain that their non-noble characters justaren't raised to use plate armour effectively. They didn't buy it. I've a feeling a lot of made up guilds (thieves?) will suffer similarly. <br /><br />Can you level up mechanically without doing so socially, or are levels "granted" by higher ups? The cleric example works for the latter, since you never escape the hierarchy - even the Pope is under God - but what if that's not true of all professions/classes?richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517340075234811323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2290828421410624791.post-59824201866785168212011-09-29T21:06:56.378-05:002011-09-29T21:06:56.378-05:00@Russ
According to the practice of the early churc...@Russ<br />According to the practice of the early church, all clergy are ordained to a specific place. Thus, a priest is ordained to be the priest for a specific parish for the rest of his life. The same is true of a bishop. Deacons, on the other hand, were attached to a bishop and had the specific job of attending to members of the church community that were spread far and wide (see Acts for the initial mission of the deaconate). Therefore, in context of an FRPG deacons are the only order of clergy that would have the freedom of movement and mission to be an adventurer.<br /><br />The ranks of missionaries are full of laymen, actually. As far as the apostles are concerned, my understanding is that they were not bishops. The calling of an apostle is fundamentally different. A bishop is the main celebrant of the liturgy for the local church. The apostle is one who is sent out. The apostles did ordain the first bishops, however.FrDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00459281821319914530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2290828421410624791.post-5306218143220611732011-09-29T19:52:00.641-05:002011-09-29T19:52:00.641-05:00I like this, but have some questions.
I don't...I like this, but have some questions.<br /><br />I don't know a whole lot about clerical adventuring in real life, but aren't missionaries (especially where they head out as the only representative of their church) usually priests, not deacons?<br /><br />I understand why bishops wouldn't typically be adventurers (unless you were doing a political game in a city). Though come to think of it, the original apostles were (if I understand correctly) also the first bishops, and they certainly did some traveling.Russhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06818303172957630563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2290828421410624791.post-28179703054186775712011-09-29T12:10:01.398-05:002011-09-29T12:10:01.398-05:00I really like the clerical level titles (and whole...I really like the clerical level titles (and whole post). I was inspired to add some descriptions and rights to a list of level titles I worked up for fighters a while ago.JDJarvishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07691101939920824546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2290828421410624791.post-56898601404064735672011-09-29T11:01:07.628-05:002011-09-29T11:01:07.628-05:00@Brendan
Part of the problem though is that classe...@Brendan<br /><i>Part of the problem though is that classes have become more abstract.</i><br />They are generic and more abstract because over the last four decades FRPGs have given us a plethora of different fantasy worlds some radically different than others. This is why I think making Level Titles world-specific is the way to go.<br /><br /><i>I like the idea behind "swordsman" in your example too, though I'm not sure I could get players to go along with not being able to wield a sword until 4th level.</i><br />I am guessing that they would have no problem playing a Japanese-type game where only samurai are allowed to wield katanas...not being able to wield a sword until fourth level is just an extension of the same idea.<br /><br />@Roger.<br /><i>Exactly!</i>;)FrDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00459281821319914530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2290828421410624791.post-46318088736011914592011-09-29T10:44:07.462-05:002011-09-29T10:44:07.462-05:00> in a world where being a cleric means being a...> in a world where being a cleric means being a Christian<br /><br />As opposed to a world where cleric titles zigzag among Catholic, Orthodox, Golden Dawn, Church of England and Buddhist? ;)Roger G-Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08594440701279968693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2290828421410624791.post-8370485912481954382011-09-29T10:22:11.951-05:002011-09-29T10:22:11.951-05:00One of the first fantasy stories I remember readin...One of the first fantasy stories I remember reading on my own is the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_Magic_%28Macdonald_and_Doyle_novels%29" rel="nofollow">Circle of Magic</a> series. This gave me a sense of titles; apprentice, journeyman, master, etc. I still like the idea, especially for classes that are tied in to some sort of campaign world organization. Part of the problem though is that classes have become more abstract. If fighter is supposed to represent many different archetypes, from barbarian to knight, then it doesn't make as much sense to have the titles.<br /><br />This also reminds me a little of the way the three orders of wizards were handled in the early versions of Dragonlance for AD&D. At around third level, you needed to take "the test" to prove that you were worthy of handling the power of a wizard. If you refused, you would be treated as a renegade and hunted down. If you succeeded, you graduated to a sort of journeyman wizard.<br /><br />I like the idea behind "swordsman" in your example too, though I'm not sure I could get players to go along with not being able to wield a sword until 4th level.Necropraxishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12716340801054739658noreply@blogger.com