tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2290828421410624791.post2246945992859385213..comments2024-03-14T10:32:29.233-05:00Comments on Blood of Prokopius: Holmes & Cook: Mr. Baggins & the Thief ClassFrDavehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00459281821319914530noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2290828421410624791.post-16048136529731430512011-06-03T21:46:24.647-05:002011-06-03T21:46:24.647-05:00I love how many different takes people have on the...I love how many different takes people have on the classes. In particular I like your focus on surprise and alertness.<br /><br />Saved to my inspiration folder!David The Archmagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11649391406526258069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2290828421410624791.post-48231187808731962192011-06-03T08:48:54.860-05:002011-06-03T08:48:54.860-05:00@Talysman
hmmm...I like that!@Talysman<br />hmmm...I <i>like</i> that!FrDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00459281821319914530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2290828421410624791.post-62831913137738620362011-06-02T20:20:34.180-05:002011-06-02T20:20:34.180-05:00I'll just toss in my support for the idea of e...I'll just toss in my support for the idea of emphasizing alertness (Hear Noise) and surprise in a re-worked Thief. In fact, I think a better way to handle Pick Pockets is to treat it as automatic if a character -- any class -- surprises the target, with perhaps a risk of discovery when surprise is over; thieves would have a generic bonus to surprise and no chance of discovery if the victim is a lower level, but would otherwise have no special "pick pocket" ability.Talysmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02162328521343832412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2290828421410624791.post-17820714222054425472011-06-02T18:03:00.165-05:002011-06-02T18:03:00.165-05:00I'm always looking for some title for the Thie...I'm always looking for some title for the Thief class that doesn't necessarily insinuate stealing. Most D&D thieves I've played or played with only stole as much as the other guys. If they are to be called thieves or burglars, then why not call Fighting-Men/Fighters "Muggers" or "Robbers"--they beat people up and take their stuff, after all. If I could think of an appropriate name, I'd like to reference the fact that Thieves accomplish their goals by stealth, rather than force. Fits right into many of their skills: fighters can knock down doors, but Thieves can bypass doors quietly, for instance. Then again, maybe the name of the class implies the PCs "day job", with adventuring being a unique activity that they transition into. Like, I'm a thief and I bring those skills with me when I go adventuring. Kind of like my Night Club singer in Call of Cthulhu brings his skills with him when he investigates the Mythos--"Singer" isn't the kind of adventurer he is, it's just where his skills are from.<br /><br />Sorry for rambling. I promise not to post for awhile. :)Alexeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04962792394148711578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2290828421410624791.post-5393184526699848642011-06-02T15:02:53.420-05:002011-06-02T15:02:53.420-05:00@ Fr. Dave:
With respect, I feel the esteemed Mr....@ Fr. Dave:<br /><br />With respect, I feel the esteemed Mr. Baggins would object to being called a safe-cracker or tomb-robber; I seem to recall he didn't like the term "burglar," either. An "expert treasure hunter" is a nomiker that could be applied to any adventurer. Also, wasn't he wearing a mail shirt at one point?<br /><br />While I find the race + class thing to be the most objectionable outcome of mistaking Baggins for a "thief," I have a sense of outrage for mistaking him for one period.<br /><br />That being said, I think there are plenty of literary precedents for a thief class in D&D, and would not ban them from MY table, regardless (only the halfling version).<br />: )JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08532311924539491087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2290828421410624791.post-69250581430622394382011-06-02T06:41:23.365-05:002011-06-02T06:41:23.365-05:00@JB
Your main complaint here is based on the race...@JB<br /><br />Your main complaint here is based on the race/class differentiation in AD&D as opposed to the race-as-class in B/X. Personally, I am a big fan of the latter and tend to agree with you about AD&D. Within Holmes, he hints at halflings being thieves, but gives no rules for it. Thus, there is absolutely no evidence that halflings have no level limit when being a thief. There are also no special racial bonuses to thief skills. This also means that you could nix the idea entirely.<br /><br />Since Cook has Halflings max out at 8th level, I would argue that <i>ALL</i> halflings would max out at 8th level — including thieves. In my tweaked Burglar version, that would mean missing out on surprising monsters in a dungeon on a 5 in 6. It would also mean only having 8d4 for HD.<br /><br />If you note, the Burglar is not the AD&D Thief, either. There is room for an Indiana Jones, a safe-crack, a tinkerer as well as a lucky schmuck who we all love from Hobbiton. The one thing a Holmesian Thief is <i>not</i> is a back-stabbing assassin like they are in AD&D. This is why Bilbo Baggins still makes a good archetype for the Holmesian Thief aka Burglar even if you never see a halfling thief or even allow them.FrDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00459281821319914530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2290828421410624791.post-65405134250005779942011-06-01T23:29:17.923-05:002011-06-01T23:29:17.923-05:00Wow, I am soooo disagreeing with you...something *...Wow, I am soooo disagreeing with you...something *I* wasn't expecting to say. <br /><br />Ugh.<br /><br />For reference:<br />http://bxblackrazor.blogspot.com/2009/08/how-bilbo-baggins-ruined-everything.htmlJBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08532311924539491087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2290828421410624791.post-82528798177130291122011-06-01T18:20:38.854-05:002011-06-01T18:20:38.854-05:00I shall definitely be using this as a reference as...I shall definitely be using this as a reference as I continue to work on my Scoundrel class. Thank you!<br /><br />Also, I can't really take credit for the idea to change the name. Telecanter, Talysman and, well, the guys who wrote 3E (did 2E use rogues or thieves?) all used different names before I came up with the Scoundrel name. Thank you for your kind words, though. ^__^Christopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16988517412357391012noreply@blogger.com